Lets Talk Truck

"HammerheadFistpunch" (hammerheadfistpunch) 03/18/2016 at 14:25 • Filed to: Truck Yeah, Rant, TRucks, HHFP

8

52

Specifically I want to talk about “truck” word associations. I think one of the more pervasive themes of truck talk is centered around what a truck “is” as well as who should and shouldn’t own one.

There are a lot of ways we could define “truck” but I think its fair to assume that when the phrase is read or said its typically associated with this type of image.

GMT400 single cab long bed WT1500

A pickup truck, usually something out of recent memory that conjures up nostalgic emotions of simpler times or blue collar work ethic, etc. That’s fine, there are no wrong answers to this exercise.

From here it’s a pretty easy thing to pin down a vehicle like this into the “truck” category by assigning its physical traits to what a “truck” is:

heavy duty engine

Ladder frame with a body on top

RWD or 4WD

Built for payload, towing and work

Solid, heavy axle, etc.

The trouble comes when we try and expand this narrow and often emotionally charged and partially conditioned response to the reality that these characteristics don’t necessarily define “truck” as much as pickup trucks have forced an association of these features with the commonly accepted term. i.e. Not all trucks are pickups.

Case in point is the perpetual argument I have with my wife on the issue of what I drive being a truck or not. I say yes, she says no...my kids have mostly sided with dad on this one.

FZJ80 Land Cruiser

Its got a big engine

Its got a ladder frame with a body on top

Its 4WD

Its got big, heavy solid axles

Its built for payload, towing and work

Its a truck, right?

but its not a pickup truck. hmmm.

Take it a step further, what about this?

Ford Econoline

It fits the mold, but its not a truck...right? Well you could argue that a truck has to has have open cargo area...okay, how about now?

Chevy Express Chassis Cab

I think the trouble is that we as people have a need to categorize things, or at least that’s something I read on the internet once, and the concept of something having more than one categorization is painful to our grey bit as so we reject any categorization outside of our own narrowly defined parameters. The example that comes to mind is music genres, how many are there? Why? What happens to those that cross genre boundaries, or encompass more than the characteristics of a single genre?

Can a truck be a van, or a wagon? Sure it can, why the hell not?!

Which brings me back to a point on what a truck is, so if we define trucks as being more than pickups, what then are the minimum qualifications for “truck”?

Is this a truck?

1961 Mercury Unibody

What about this?

2016 Honda Ridgline

or one of these?

El Camino SS

Subaru Baja

Do I have your fingers in internet rage mode yet? Look, I’m not trying to tell you how you should define “truck” except to appeal to the notion that it extends beyond a list of must have features or concepts often rooted only in an emotional appeal to the past.

Moving on from how we categorize and define truck we can now discuss the idea of who should own a truck, or what a truck should be used for. Now I’ll buy the argument, in a discussion on the definition of truck, that it’s a vehicle principally designed for utility with emphasis on cargo space or hauling/towing ability as a primary design function.

With that in mind, I think we can avoid the use of the phrase “real truck” as in, “That ridgeline isn’t a real truck, its more minivan than anything!” because there is no need to qualify “real” because we’ve boiled down the essence of truck to disinclude the notion that in addition to “real” trucks there are also “fake” trucks. The definition of the basic tenet of “truck” precludes the existence of “fake trucks”, i.e. its either a truck, or its not.

The question is no longer whether is a “real truck” by the standards of a narrowly focused list of truck must haves but whether or not it meets the standard of being principally designed to serve the FUNCTION of truck.

Now I will leave it up to you to set your own definitions of what the function of truck is, but to me its exactly what I’ve mentioned above:

Is this vehicle principally designed for, or given preferential consideration towards the function of utility in moving cargo, or performing work.

Whats interesting is that this is actually very close to what the US government uses as its baseline for trucks, though it has to be said that this definition is used mostly to detrimental effect in the sense of relaxed emissions standards for “light trucks” that aren’t, by its own definitions carrying out the function of truck, or by limiting marketplace selection by allowing some foreign trucks that also carry people but disincluding other trucks that don’t (chicken tax). In this sense, the Government is doing the reverse of what most people do which is to bias against the function of the truck as opposed to bias against the physical qualifications of truck. This is all pretty much off topic but it does serve to illustrate that the difference between function and a list of features matters.

And now the rub, the reason I started this inane rant in the first place: Bias.

Can we stop the hate in regards to whats a real truck and what isn’t?

Can we lay off the buyers of said vehicles to give them the opportunity to buy the thing that they need instead of brow beating them into choosing something that’s worse for them in order to fit a trivial and pointless set of imaginary and preconceived definitions of what we think they should be driving? i.e. !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!!

And on the other end of the scale, can we lay off the people who’ve been brow beaten into buying a “real truck” when they don’t actually need one? I mean, why do you think so many people are buying trucks for daily drivers? Could it possibly be that we are all responsible by assigning so many traits to trucks that don’t belong to them and then forcing these traits on consumers?

Put another way; Would so many people want trucks if they weren’t so chock full of assigned traits of masculinity, solidarity and nostalgia?

The truck didn’t ask for all that, be we gave it to it anyway.

Follow that logic as well as the timeline of other trucks that have been slowly drained of their basic truck qualities through attrition with the demands of consumer comforts (Crossovers) and is it any wonder that traditional pickup trucks are getting more luxurious, more comfortable, more expensive and less utilitarian?

Not that there is anything wrong with this I want to point that out, but I think its time we stop bitching and moaning about it at the very least. The truth is that the truck is still around, and its not going anywhere, but it doesn’t looks like we expect it to and we need to get used to it.

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > HammerheadFistpunch 03/18/2016 at 14:32

0

Burden of proof rests on the predominant weight of evidence, some elements counting for more than others.

For Sweden > HammerheadFistpunch 03/18/2016 at 14:33

0

If you have to open a door to load it, it’s not a truck

WK2 > HammerheadFistpunch 03/18/2016 at 14:36

0

truuuuuggggghhhhhs

Jcarr > For Sweden 03/18/2016 at 14:37

6

Where is your god now?

BJ > HammerheadFistpunch 03/18/2016 at 14:37

1

I’m not going to offer much of an opinion beyond saying that I like what you’re saying.

But what I really wanted to say is that I love very sincerely the stripped-down aesthetic of a work truck. Single cab, long box, rwd (or 4wd if you really need it). No unnecessary chrome. Simplicity.

HammerheadFistpunch > For Sweden 03/18/2016 at 14:38

3

BrianGriffin thinks “reliable” is just a state of mind > HammerheadFistpunch 03/18/2016 at 14:40

0

My state makes all of your images be registered as trucks so, yes. Oddly enough, vehicles like Ford’s SporTrac and GM’s Avalanche are not “trucks” to Pennsylvania.

HammerheadFistpunch > BJ 03/18/2016 at 14:40

2

Writing this made me realize WHY trucks are so romantic and its precisely and ironically because the truck used to be no nonsense and bereft of expectation. It was the strong silent type. It’s the same line of thought that turned rugged romantic SUV’s into crossovers. Everyone wants to be a cowboy but not the kind that has to, you know, do cowboy stuff all the time.

HammerheadFistpunch > BrianGriffin thinks “reliable” is just a state of mind 03/18/2016 at 14:42

0

My cruiser is a “Wagon” on the title and a “Truck” to my insurance. It goes back to the idea that a wagon can also be a truck.

Hoccy > HammerheadFistpunch 03/18/2016 at 14:42

2

In a Norwegian mind, a Scania 142 is a truck. If you have anything smaller and more car-like with an open cargo area (like the F150), it’s a pickup. Closed? It’s a van.

Future next gen S2000 owner > HammerheadFistpunch 03/18/2016 at 14:43

0

!!! UNKNOWN CONTENT TYPE !!!

Never!!*

*I would respond directly to your post but kinja hates me and won’t let me do that anymore.

gawdzillla > HammerheadFistpunch 03/18/2016 at 14:43

0

I bought the truck that I have right now just because it comes in handy
I dont want to rent a truck whenever I need to move that 10 bags of mulch from home depot or pick up that new couch from room-to-go.
it serves its purpose as my only transportation, despite the extra cost of gas.
Being able to just hose the bed down vs cleaning interior carpet is a huge plus, there are times you dont want to share air space with stinky things

I also have a miata in the garage I plan on racing which the truck will be towing it, that is eventually down the road ...

Urambo Tauro > HammerheadFistpunch 03/18/2016 at 14:45

1

Strictly speaking, I think a truck is any vehicle that has more room for cargo than it does for passengers. A FWD or unibody example still qualifies as a (light-duty) truck. And even though I don’t really like it, I’d have to say such a definition would have to make utes part of that category as well.

Some trucks that have a permanent enclosure over the cargo area can be classified as vans, and therefore all vans are by definition “trucks”. Vans are a sub-category of truck.

But if we’re talking about big-rigs, perhaps the word truck ought to be avoided altogether. It’s actually the trailer that has the cargo capacity. So these vehicles’ main function is not so much hauling as it is towing , so tractor would be the proper term

Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer > HammerheadFistpunch 03/18/2016 at 14:45

1

Not all trucks are pickups.

That’s my point, dammit.

I’d say, WIDEN the category. They are ALL trucks. Now, the assign sub categories.

“Van” truck - Any vehicle designed primarily for carrying cargo in an enclosed area bigger than that of a minivan. Passengers CAN be carried but it is not the prime focus.

“Truck” truck (for lack of another term and to distinguish it from pickup—you’ll see further down)- Traditional BOF RWD/4WD Cab and bed. Work truck.

“Pickup” truck - Traditional BOF RWD/4WD but focused more towards families or recreation. Bigger cab/smaller box perhaps. Lowered sport trucks, raised off roaders and so on. “Play truck” if you will.

“Ute” truck. All unibody trucks, whether they are RWD, FWD, AWD, 4WD, raised, lowered and so on. Subaru Baja, traditional Aussi utes, Ridgeline all fall into this category as far as I’m concerned. Just the way North America loves it’s raised wagons (crossovers), the Ridgeline is that to the ute world (even though not a success) afaic.

And so on...

If you like something, then buy it. Doesn’t matter if I don’t “get” it. Doesn’t matter if you don’t “get” what I’m driving. Of course I’m still going to argue though, because it’s fun :)

HammerheadFistpunch > gawdzillla 03/18/2016 at 14:46

1

I should point out that I have ZERO problem with the idea of buying a truck because you want it or wont “use it like a truck all the time” I take issue with berating people based on the notion that they don’t deserve a truck or such nonsense.

HammerheadFistpunch > Urambo Tauro 03/18/2016 at 14:50

0

I could go along with this. Its tricky in the sense that some vehicles can be configured either way - i.e. my land cruiser can carry LOTS of stuff OR 7 people.

for Michigan > HammerheadFistpunch 03/18/2016 at 14:53

0

I think in some cases (e.g. passenger vans, buses) people are the cargo.

LongbowMkII > HammerheadFistpunch 03/18/2016 at 14:55

0

I’m going to give a personal response which probably wouldn’t apply anymore:

Is your kid embarrassed to be seen in it?

For the longest time I was embarrassed of my dad’s 1969 c-10. It was three different colors (one of which was rustoleum) had house carpet for the inside generally two different sets of wheels (replaced the rear axle with a 6lug one from a c20 I guess), no a/c (in Texas) was loud and noisy. For about a year I had to stomp on the floorboard to engage the starter.

He replaced damn near everything on that truck before he crashed it. He never gave one shit about what me or my mom or anyone said about it. Hell she bought a new f150 in 92 or so to replace it as a surprise and he took it back.

I don’t know exactly what a truck is, but it certainly isn’t a platinum edition f250 with SUPER DUTY written on it 28 times no matter how much work it does.

Rock Bottom > HammerheadFistpunch 03/18/2016 at 14:58

0

Here’s a fun one: The Jeep Comanche was (kinda) a unibody pickup

HammerheadFistpunch > Rock Bottom 03/18/2016 at 15:00

1

I was going to include the Comanche, but I felt like I had enough examples. That Mercury, for example, was unibody.

For Sweden > Jcarr 03/18/2016 at 15:00

0

Aftermarket don’t matter

For Sweden > HammerheadFistpunch 03/18/2016 at 15:01

0

Aftermarket don’t matter

HammerheadFistpunch > For Sweden 03/18/2016 at 15:02

0

So you can drive off in a truck and turn it into not truck later through addition?

just-a-scratch > HammerheadFistpunch 03/18/2016 at 15:03

0

If it’s supposed to be built for payload towing and work, the Land Cruiser fails the test and thus isn’t a truck. You can argue that one all you want, but the majority of its features cater to moving people, in the majority of its available space. If it were configured with tie downs, and an easy to access load area, (instead of seats, carpets, and severals mall doors) then it would qualify as a truck/van.

The Land Cruiser can perform many of the functions of a truck, but I wouldn't choose it to haul work tools or 1.5 cubic yards of manure.

HammerheadFistpunch > just-a-scratch 03/18/2016 at 15:05

1

I don’t think you’re intimately familiar with how the Land Cruiser is used in other parts of the world besides the US

Pixel > HammerheadFistpunch 03/18/2016 at 15:06

1

People want the things that represent their idealized version of their life, but are also unwilling to deal with the compromises that might be present in that theoretical ideal life. So you get these weird mutations away from the original ideal and into the compromise between the ideal and the reality.

For Sweden > HammerheadFistpunch 03/18/2016 at 15:06

0

It’s still a truck because you can return it to stock without needing a cutting torch

shop-teacher > HammerheadFistpunch 03/18/2016 at 15:09

0

You hit me right in the feels with that ‘79 Chevy trucks ad. My dad’s first truck was a ‘79 Chevy K10 long bed, electric blue with a blue and white plaid bench seat, a 350 and a 4-on-the-floor. I was 6 years old when he traded it for an ‘88 K1500, and I cried.

To me SUV’s, even real bad ass ones like your Land Cruiser, aren’t “trucks”, but I give no shits if you call it one. Nor will I give anybody crap for buying a Ridgeline. The Ridgeline is perfect for the suburban home owner who wants the convenience of hauling stuff around in a truck, without having the shit ride of a “real” truck.

Nothing > HammerheadFistpunch 03/18/2016 at 15:11

2

I like trucks. More specifically, I like pick ups. My world is best in balance when I have a newer, reliable truck, and a project vehicle of some sort. I’m lucky enough that I’ve had that set up for a while (except when I briefly entered the world of 2 fun cars, but that didn’t even last a year).

I’d almost equate a truck with most* vehicles that have either barn doors or a tailgate. There are exceptions, of course. A Mini Clubman, for example, is not a truck.

Do I NEED a truck ALL of the time? No. I don’t need my ‘67 Cougar, either. I sure like to have them, though. If I’m content with my bouncy ride, ho-hum gas mileage, and brick like aero, just let me be. Don’t tell me I don’t need a truck. You don’t need your track car, either.

TheD0k_2many toys 2little time > HammerheadFistpunch 03/18/2016 at 15:14

1

Truck

Not a truck

uofime-2 > HammerheadFistpunch 03/18/2016 at 15:20

2

Just to be argumentative:

I can use a garden rake to scratch my back but that doesn’t mean that’s what its for.

and thus we return to the intent versus use argument.

uofime-2 > HammerheadFistpunch 03/18/2016 at 15:24

0

I think we should all be excellent to each other, and respect other people’s choices regardless of our opinion of them.

Arguing however is fun, at least up until the teeth come out and people are no longer excellent to one another.

just-a-scratch > HammerheadFistpunch 03/18/2016 at 15:24

1

Your article is a very good area of discussion. Thank you for posting it. The very word truck is loaded with all kinds of hidden meaning.

I have some minor differences on what I think should define a truck. While the body on ladder frame is traditional, as is having the engine out front, these I don’t think they’re necessary in defining something as a truck. Also, the requirement to be RWD or 4WD are unnecessary.

Further, let us limit ourselves to ‘trucks’ in the sense of a automobile, and not other contexts such as the assemblies that hold wheels, axles, and suspension systems for train cars.

What does that leave us with?
a motor vehicle that is:
wheel driven,
a use that emphasizes work, payloads, and towing,
optimized for uses listed especially related to heavy duty components,

Even the definition I have will alienate many ‘trucks’ and allow many things that others view as ‘not trucks’. These types of descriptive ideas that are not quantifiable will always allow for argument of what a truck is.

If we want a real yes or no answers on ‘is it a truck?’ we have to make quatifiable definitions. Consider things like, ‘a truck must have a payload capacity of no less than XX% of GVW or towing capacity of YY% of GVW. Maybe we need something to say that a vehicle is a ‘truck’ only when used in certain ways.

just-a-scratch > HammerheadFistpunch 03/18/2016 at 15:27

0

OK, that's a fair argument. I concede.

itschrome > HammerheadFistpunch 03/18/2016 at 15:33

1

brothers, sisters of the automotive loving community I implore you to stand up to prejudice and say one luv, one truck. I don’t care if its a pick up, a suv, ladder frame or unibody. I dont care if it’s a cross over platform, rwd, awd, 4x4, 2x4 or even FWD. If you drive it, if you luv it and if it’s a truck to you stand tall, stand proud and say it aloud “this is my truck, and I luv my truck.”

Now if you’ll join me in community and song, sing along!

One luv, one truck
Let’s get together and drive all night
Hear the engine idle (One luv)
Hear the the engine rev (One truck)
Sayin’, “Give thanks and praise to the truck and I will drive all night.”
Sayin’, “Let’s get together and feel drive all night
Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa

Let them all pass all their dirty remarks (One luv)
There is one question I’d really love to ask (One truck)
Is there a place for the hopeless sinner
Who was hurt because of a unibody truck?
Believe me

One luv, (What about the one truck)
One truck, (What about luv)
Let’s get together and drive all night
As it was in the beginning (One luv)
So shall it be in the end (One truck)
Alright, “Give thanks and praise to the truck and I will drive all night.”
Sayin’, “Let’s get together and feel all right.”
One more thing

Let’s get together to fight these stupid stereotype (One luv)
So when the trucks comes there will be no, no argument (One name)
Have pity on those whose ego is too thin to luv
There ain’t no hiding from the changes of the market segment

Sayin’, “One luv, one truck
Let’s get together and drive all night.”
I’m plea’ing to mankind (One luv)
Oh, Lord (One htruck) Whoa.

“Give thanks and praise to the truck and I will drive all night.”
Sayin’, Let’s get together and drive all night.

“Give thanks and praise to the truck and I will drive all night.”
Let’s get together and drive all night.

Birddog > HammerheadFistpunch 03/18/2016 at 15:36

0

I would easily consider a Van a “Truck” just as I would your LC.

I’d like to add one more “Can we stop” to the list.

When I asked opinions on a specific truck recently someone suggested a Miata. A f4cking Miata!

Unless you work construction; how about a nice Miata?

No! Bad Dog! BAD!

HammerheadFistpunch > uofime-2 03/18/2016 at 15:40

0

Yeah, I don’t mean to say we shouldn’t have fun as a car community, I just think people need to broaden their scope of what a “truck” is.

HammerheadFistpunch > Birddog 03/18/2016 at 15:43

1

yeah, a van is a type of truck. Its not a PICKUP truck, but its a truck AND and van. Also, The whole Miata is always the answer things is about as funny these days as “why did you turn?” Its run its course.

haier2 > HammerheadFistpunch 03/18/2016 at 15:50

1

I am perpetually having a similar conversation about my trucks (SUVs). One being a 4x4 Tahoe with a full vinyl floor and no back seat. The other a Yukon XL 2500 with an 8.1l v8.

The Tahoe is used for “truck” activities utilizing the storage area. While the Yukon is pampered inside, it can pull a house down.

I call them trucks, they share a whole lot more characteristics with their truck counterparts than most any SUV (read: CUV) offered, and they certainly aren’t cars. Yet people still want to argue over these nit-picky semantics.

HammerheadFistpunch > haier2 03/18/2016 at 15:53

2

If for no other reason that saying “I’m taking the SUV to the store” sounds absolutely stupid.

slipperysallylikespenguins > HammerheadFistpunch 03/18/2016 at 15:55

1

The one thing I took from reading this post is that the Landcruiser is more van than truck

HammerheadFistpunch > slipperysallylikespenguins 03/18/2016 at 15:56

0

its a wagon and a truck and maybe a van. The point of this whole thing is that it doesn’t have to be one or the other exclusively.

Roundbadge > HammerheadFistpunch 03/18/2016 at 15:58

0

My Tacoma acts an awful lot like a truck, despite only having a 2.7L 4cyl. It’s not powerful, but it’s powerful enough. It’s body-on-frame, has a solid axle and works as hard as a suburban homeowner can ask it to. I’mma call it a truck.

Note...I see that you’re doing the opposite of classifying. Just throwing my opinion onto the pile.

slipperysallylikespenguins > HammerheadFistpunch 03/18/2016 at 16:07

0

I believe vehicles should fall into a strict category like Truck(HD commercial vehicles, most need a CDL), pickup, suv, van, cuv, car, or many more if you were having a discussion with someone. But speaking in slang or offhand conversation it makes more sense just to split the categories to car or truck. And for some terrible reason I’m going to think of Econolines when people mention Landcruisers now.

uofime-2 > HammerheadFistpunch 03/18/2016 at 16:23

0

My opinion is there’s not sense getting worked up over a name, a vehicle is what is it is, regardless of what you call it.

It is an interesting discussion you’ve started though

HammerheadFistpunch > uofime-2 03/18/2016 at 16:25

1

thats kinda my point, though I do think the larger context is that people need to get off their high horse re: “thats not a ‘real’ truck!”

4muddyfeet - bare knuckle with an EZ30 > HammerheadFistpunch 03/18/2016 at 16:36

0

We’ve had this conversation before; http://oppositelock.kinja.com/truck-truck-tr…

Personally, I class dedicated commercial vehicles as ‘trucks’, whether that be an LDV flatbed or a Piaggio Ape TM. Pickup trucks, no matter what platform they reside on are ‘pickups’ or ‘pickup trucks’, utilitarian multi-role passenger and goods vehicles, with a bias towards the private market.

Loping Camshaft > HammerheadFistpunch 03/18/2016 at 17:09

0

There is a grey area with SUVs, because most are obviously not cars (as in a sedan or a coupe) and many share pickup characteristics like engines and frames.

I used to call my old S10 Blazer a truck because it was based on a pickup, sharing everything except the rear section with the S10. Also, it rode like an old work pickup. But mainly, I hate actually saying the term “SUV”, at least in reference to my own vehicle.

“Hey guys, wanna take my SUV to the movie?” Kill me.

Pickup_man > HammerheadFistpunch 03/18/2016 at 17:59

0

My quick personal definitions because it’s almost 5 and I don’t have time to elaborate.

Pickup - a vehicle with an enclosed cab regardless of size, and an open box, or designed for an open box. Example: Rabbit pickup, Baja, Brat, Rampage, Ridgeline

Truck (yes emphasized) - A pickup, but built to a stronger standard. All trucks have rear wheel or 4wd, body on frame, and a high torque engine. Examples. F-150, Silverado, Ram.

SUVs, not trucks, although close. Vans, not trucks.

It’s now 5:00. Have a good weekend!

pip bip - choose Corrour > HammerheadFistpunch 03/18/2016 at 18:02

0

they’re all Utes!

HammerheadFistpunch > Pickup_man 03/18/2016 at 18:02

0

Thanks for stopping by, have a good weekend.

The Opponaut formerly known as MattP123 > HammerheadFistpunch 03/18/2016 at 18:58

0

I’ve often said “My Grand Marquis is more of a truck than insert crossover here .” Because for me “truck” means picup or SUV body on a frame and the ability to move a large volume or weight. Example, Tahoe, Silverado, H3, Colorado are trucks. Squish the front end and now it becomes a van, like an Econoline or Astrovan. Unibody stuff like Grand Cherokee would be SUV. Unibody or car based stuff like the Baja or El Camino with a bed would be a pickup. And only a pickup, not pickup truck. And the current Explorer would be a Crossover.